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Companion Kate
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 2014
Location: UK
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 Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Season 2, Episode 3 |
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Aser
Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 57
Location: Sacramento CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| The file doesn't seem to be coming through on ITunes. It's also not available on the Signal's ITunes page. It is on the podcast list, but it can't be downloaded. |
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Aser wrote: | | The file doesn't seem to be coming through on ITunes. It's also not available on the Signal's ITunes page. It is on the podcast list, but it can't be downloaded. |
Ah, ok, it's not just somehow me, then.
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lhoward
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: |
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After we publish new content, it takes iTunes a little while to detect the change. It should probably appear before too much longer. If you can't wait, you can always download the file directly from the website.
L
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| lhoward wrote: | After we publish new content, it takes iTunes a little while to detect the change. It should probably appear before too much longer. If you can't wait, you can always download the file directly from the website.
L |
Any idea why iTunes would display that there's a new item, but not actually have the mp3 itself available? (I have no idea how iTunes podcast listings work on the back-end).
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lhoward
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Posts: 271
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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I do not know the specifics of how iTunes works. Apple does not release those sorts of details. I do know that, hidden inside of the iTunes application & web service, there is some preiodically-refreshed caching of certain content (feeds and/or attachments).
However, I've done some more digging and there is definitely an error with our RSS feed. We are working on the problem and hope to have it resolved shortly.
L
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kurya
Joined: 01 Aug 2005
Posts: 115
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Axios
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Worked fine for me through the link in the e-mail. Listening to the episode now.
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Axios wrote: | | Worked fine for me through the link in the e-mail. Listening to the episode now. |
Yes. The typo was in the RSS feed, not the direct link available elsewhere.
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Companion Kate
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 2014
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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OK, OK - there was a typo in the XML in the RSS feed. Sorry about that.
It's fixed now. 
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OutlawMusicDJ
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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another great show! WONDERFUL FF/B5 article and tribute to the late great Andreas Katsulas (g'kar) Thanks!
Brad
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dougom
Joined: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 165
Location: Austin, TX, where we remain weird
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Companion Kate wrote: | OK, OK - there was a typo in the XML in the RSS feed. Sorry about that.
It's fixed now. |
Just a note: it's still not working on iTunes. I was able to download directly, however. |
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| dougom wrote: | | Companion Kate wrote: | OK, OK - there was a typo in the XML in the RSS feed. Sorry about that.
It's fixed now. :) |
Just a note: it's still not working on iTunes. I was able to download directly, however. |
It's working in iTunes. But you have to click "update" (which refreshes all your feeds) before trying to click "get" again.
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MathMan
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: The Big Damn Gap |
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It has been said that the entire Firefly series fits in the time between when Simon rescues River and the time the operative is introduced in Serenity.
Although it is true that the series occurs after Simon rescues River and before the operative comes into view I think the timeline offered is wrong. The problem I have is that we never actually see the resuce seen. What we see is the recording of the scene which the operative is watching. It's shown as if it is happening in real time but when the operative is introduced we see that it was just a recording.
In reality the entire Firefly series happens BEFORE Serenity. |
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: The Big Damn Gap |
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| MathMan wrote: | It has been said that the entire Firefly series fits in the time between when Simon rescues River and the time the operative is introduced in Serenity.
Although it is true that the series occurs after Simon rescues River and before the operative comes into view I think the timeline offered is wrong. The problem I have is that we never actually see the resuce seen. What we see is the recording of the scene which the operative is watching. It's shown as if it is happening in real time but when the operative is introduced we see that it was just a recording.
In reality the entire Firefly series happens BEFORE Serenity. |
Well, actually, the point is that it's sort of all of the above. Joss just keeps undercutting/replacing where you think you are at any given moment during the beginning, but it functions as both things at once.
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: kari in oregon |
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Yo kari, if you feel like uprooting yourself in the middle of move craziness, PDX Browncoats' monthly shindig is tomorrow.
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Lushy
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: Re: The Big Damn Gap |
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| MathMan wrote: | It has been said that the entire Firefly series fits in the time between when Simon rescues River and the time the operative is introduced in Serenity.
Although it is true that the series occurs after Simon rescues River and before the operative comes into view I think the timeline offered is wrong. The problem I have is that we never actually see the resuce seen. What we see is the recording of the scene which the operative is watching. It's shown as if it is happening in real time but when the operative is introduced we see that it was just a recording.
In reality the entire Firefly series happens BEFORE Serenity. |
Yes... you are right. The entire series happens before the movie. The rescue obviously happens before the series, but all of the events in the movie occur after the series. The operative is not assigned to try and find River until after the comic book series... therefore it is impossible that he would have watched the hologram of the rescue until that point. We will have an article that will answer a bunch of the timeline questions that people have in our next episode.
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Companion Kate
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 2014
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I'm inclined to agree with Bix. Joss makes the viewpoint at the start of the film jump about so much that, really, everybody's right.
The series occured between the rescue of River, and the Operative's first appearance in the movie. Now, whether you believe that the rescue we saw in the movie was the rescue as it was happening, or a recording of the rescue, or both, is entirely a matter of perspective.
One point of note is that recordings don't dream. In the blue room scene, River was dreaming - or remembering, or something. It wasn't an implanted memory because Mathias didn't know what River was seeing. (All he said was "scary monsters" and "off the charts"). So should we assume that the schoolteacher scene was also something that the Operative was watching as part of the recording of the rescue? I think not.
I think we're all pretty clear that things happened in this order:
(1) Lots of ships left Earth-That-Was and headed for the 'verse
(2) There was a big war and the Alliance won
(3) A teacher showed a movie of events (1) and (2) to 12-year old River.
(4) River was made an involuntary subject of an Alliance experiment
(5) Just before she was rescued, she dreamed about event (3)
(6) Simon rescued River
(7) Firefly the series happened
(8) "Those Left Behind" happened (in which the Operative got his mission)
(9) The Operative viewed the recording of (6)
(10) The rest of the movie happened.
Arguing about whether the series happened "before" or "after" the early scenes in the movie depends entirely on whether you think you are watching (6) or (9). Like the Bix, I think that the first few scenes were confusing on purpose, and that this is really immaterial to the timeline. Unless, that is, you think that the migration scene was actually the Operative watching a documentary within a school lesson within a dream within a holographic recording ... but I don't believe that holographic cameras are capable of capturing the dreams of their subjects, so I just don't buy that.
Incidently, there were some events in the movie that definitely didn't happen. There were not huge stone letters orbiting the Earth and spelling out the the word "Universal" (...or if there were, were they in the history movie, River's dream, or the Operative's recording?), and the letters of the word "Serenity" did not fly through space and land on the side of Mal's ship in just the right place to complete the logo, just before the primary buffer panel fell off. Again - you have to allow Joss some cinematic license. You can't take absolutely everything totally literally.
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Last edited by Companion Kate on Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:14 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Axios
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| theonetruebix wrote: | | Axios wrote: | | Worked fine for me through the link in the e-mail. Listening to the episode now. |
Yes. The typo was in the RSS feed, not the direct link available elsewhere. |
Way to make me feel like a ruttin' moron. 
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jab1981
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Companion Kate wrote: | | One point of note is that recordings don't dream. |
That's a very good point. I'd entirely forgotten the classroom scene preceding the rescue. That would lend some credibility to the idea that the rescue is taking place in pre-Firefly time and only later jumps to the Serenity timeline. While I wasn't going to take the time out to argue the issue, I too was bothered by the initial suggestion that Firefly took place during the opening of Serenity... because after all it did end up being a recording. But considering the dream I'm not sure what I think anymore! A tad heavy on sarcasm, but a well reasoned response none the less.
Though I can't speak for the OP I can speak for myself. You've certainly changed my mind about this issue. Now it won't keep me up awake at night any longer!  |
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gobluegirl
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 539
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I was the one who wrote the line in question, for the Serenity sci-fi review, so I figured I'd weigh in here briefly
I'm pretty much with Kate and Bix here, that the scene is functioning both as a holo-recording, and the actual event.
My initial interperetation, the one I based my sentence on was thus: The first part of that scene was in real time. We were seeing Simon rescue River. But when we see the operative viewing the record, we've flashed foward in time. What we were seeing, as the audience, was the actual rescue, until it cuts to the Operative in the holo-room.
My reason for phrasing it the way I did was mostly for stylistic purposes. It seemed an interesting way to give a certain perspective to the scopes of the movie and the tv show. It's intriguing to me that the entire time span of Firefly fit right there into the first few minutes of the movie.
gbg
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MathMan
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I rewatched the movie this weekend both with and without the commentary. I'll have to re-evaluated my position. The opening is not clearly in any one time and it is impossible to place it in the timeline officially (although it is clear the order of the actual events). |
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MathMan wrote: | | I rewatched the movie this weekend both with and without the commentary. I'll have to re-evaluated my position. The opening is not clearly in any one time and it is impossible to place it in the timeline officially (although it is clear the order of the actual events). |
I'm not sure I follow. Simon's rescue is pre-Firefly. The Operative speaking with Dr. Mathias is post-comicbook, which was post-Firefly. And then we're on Serenity in the present.
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MathMan
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes the rescue is pre-Firefly but it is unclear when we switch from live to recording. |
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Axios
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| MathMan wrote: | | Yes the rescue is pre-Firefly but it is unclear when we switch from live to recording. |
The whole time we see the rescue of River, it's the recording. It was shown in that manner in order to cram as much backstory as possible into the opening.
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Axios wrote: | | MathMan wrote: | | Yes the rescue is pre-Firefly but it is unclear when we switch from live to recording. |
The whole time we see the rescue of River, it's the recording. It was shown in that manner in order to cram as much backstory as possible into the opening. |
It confuses me that so many people need to choose that it's one or the other. Can it possibly be the case that so few of us are capable of seeing it as both at the same time?
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Companion Kate
Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 2014
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| MathMan wrote: | | Yes the rescue is pre-Firefly but it is unclear when we switch from live to recording. |
This is fun, but remember that the same question applies to all of the scenes in the teaser.
Let's start with the migration from Earth-That-Was. Are we seeing actual images of the migration, or are we seeing the documentary that was being shown to young River? The answer matters, because if we're seeing real footage then we are seeing canonical events, but if we're just watching a documentary then it might just be Alliance propaganda.
Same with the school scene. Are we seeing actual events that took place at River's school, or merely a dream that River had when she was in the blue room?
Once you realise that the break between "then" and "now" is purposefully unclear in all of these cases, not just the rescue scene, then you can kind of stop arguing about the "when" of the rescue scene because, once you've seen the pattern, you've seen the pattern. The confusion stops when the teaser ends and the opening credits roll because Serenity represents solid ground.
This is fun 
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SVNBob
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: |
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| MathMan wrote: | | Yes the rescue is pre-Firefly but it is unclear when we switch from live to recording. |
It's fairly clear to me. We switch when we hear the Operative say "Stop. Backtrack." That's when we hit the recording.
But like Bix, I can see it as both. Like Early, it's Schrodinger's cat.
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MathMan
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Companion Kate wrote: | Let's start with the migration from Earth-That-Was. Are we seeing actual images of the migration, or are we seeing the documentary that was being shown to young River? The answer matters, because if we're seeing real footage then we are seeing canonical events, but if we're just watching a documentary then it might just be Alliance propaganda.
Same with the school scene. Are we seeing actual events that took place at River's school, or merely a dream that River had when she was in the blue room? |
I've always assumed that River's dreams are a combination of fact and fiction. Even in the series I never thought River's dreams documented what actually happened rather I've felt they're representative of the events. The difference is subtle but important.
As for the "Earth that was" things at the beginning of the movie, I take that as "true enough". It's consistant with what we know from the series although if the actual events differed it wouldn't surprise me. If I had to choose one side I would say that the story of "Earth that was" we "know" is Alliance propaganda--it just might actually be true.
| Companion Kate wrote: | | Once you realise that the break between "then" and "now" is purposefully unclear in all of these cases, not just the rescue scene, then you can kind of stop arguing about the "when" of the rescue scene because, once you've seen the pattern, you've seen the pattern. The confusion stops when the teaser ends and the opening credits roll because Serenity represents solid ground. |
I will whole heartedly agree that this discussion is moot but we're fans and this is what fans do. |
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theonetruebix
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 269
Location: The Portland of Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| MathMan wrote: | | I've always assumed that River's dreams are a combination of fact and fiction. Even in the series I never thought River's dreams documented what actually happened rather I've felt they're representative of the events. The difference is subtle but important. |
This is actually my favorite issue in this regard, and I talk about it in my fan commentary for the movie. Since it's the only River school sequence which doesn't apppear in the overblown white haze of the others, I take the opening school sequence to be an actual classroom discussion River had in GenEd -- up until the stylus to the forehead, of course, which I take as the dream/memory being intruded upon by the doctor who is dealing with the needle in the real world.
| MathMan wrote: | | As for the "Earth that was" things at the beginning of the movie, I take that as "true enough". It's consistant with what we know from the series although if the actual events differed it wouldn't surprise me. |
Of course, all we know from the series is what some people have said. And as we discovered can sometimes be the case when we had to create the "Simon lied to the crew" fanwank, you can't always believe what people say.
How odd would it have been if, say, sometime in season three, a ship arrived and claimed to be from Earth, saying everything was just fine back home. ;)
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